FLUORIDE BURNS THROUGH CONCRETE!
http://youtu.be/Hj6WAXGfAnM

"FLUORIDE BURNS THROUGH CONCRETE"

This film is about fluorosilicic acid. A very small amount is added to community water supplies, and when it is added, it immediately breaks down into three things: water, silica (a bit of sand), and fluoride ion (just like the fluoride ions that are already found in ground water).

Mr/s. Patriot is not familiar with the principle of "dose makes the poison." Many beneficial substances can be poisonous to humans in high enough doses, e.g. too much calcium can cause havoc with your heart or give you kidney stones. There is even such a thing as "water intoxication" which has killed people.

Fluoride is a very common earth mineral that people have evolved with in their environment and developed a use for it in having stronger teeth and bones. 20th century people learned what the ideal amount of fluoride in drinking water should be.

Fluoridation is one of those things that makes you happy to be alive in this age.

It is immoral to force everyone to take a drug against their will.
Some want you to rely on the government to specify a drug (Hexafluorosilicic acid, a toxic waste fluoride) for you to be forced to take. It is the only drug on the market not tested and approved as safe and effective for human consumption ( in the USA) by the FDA. It is illegal for any doctor to try to force you to take a drug.

Fluoridation isn't "a drug." It is the adjustment of a mineral nutrient in water. You aren't "forced" to drink it. (Get a filter and let the rest of us enjoy good dental health.) Fluorosilicic acid isn't a "toxic waste" but rather the wise use of a recovered resource. And it has all been tested to the overwhelming satisfaction of the scientific community.

Nurse Linda:
Not a drug you say.
How do you describe a chemical uses to treat the body (teeth), whch can only be purchased by prescription. Ask your pharmacist.
It is immoral and should be illegal for the government to force everyone to consume a drug against their will.
Why not take it out of the drinking water and allow anyone who wants it to but it in their own glass of water? Then everyone would be happy.

Willie: "Not a drug you say. How do you describe a chemical uses to treat the body (teeth), whch can only be purchased by prescription."

It's a matter of dosage. Take cortisone cream. In low dose, it is over the counter. In high doses it needs a prescription. Many vitamins and minerals are not regulated by the FDA, but in high, therapeutic doses, such as those given IV, they are.

You have a faulty premise upon which you presume to determine everyone happiness.

Nurse Linda:
It is true that no doctor would ever prescribe fluoride to an adult because it is poison and heals nothing or cures nothing. No one has explained why anyone would wish to consume a little poison in every glass of water, every day of their life when 50% of all consumed builds up in the organs, primarily the bones the glands and the brain.

However the fault in your reasoning about dose is that a dentist would prescribe to a child the same dose as put into drinking water. But it not available over the counter at all--- only by prescription--- a drug.

Mr.Willie says "It is true that no doctor would ever prescribe fluoride to an adult because it is poison and heals nothing or cures nothing."

Fluoride tablets are prescribed where there is insufficient fluoride content in drinking water. The prescriber is responsible for know if the community water is fluoridated.

Fluoride is prescribed as a treatment for a certain type of early hearing loss involving the small bones in the inner ear.

American Patriot: Being modern doesn't mean that the government should take total control of all aspects of life and decide what's good and what's not. The right thing to do for the city of st. pete is to admit that people's dental health is the people's own responsibility and the city is not going to put additives in everyone's water just because some irresponsable citizens choose not to take good care of their teeth. Oh yeah, one more thing, when you decide to let the government brainwash you by accepting what it determines to be a "standard" to follow, you're not being different from those who still believe earth is flat... think about it ;-)

Dear Nezar Kawmi: Providing public health measures is within the proper role of government.

Adding a few more fluoride ions to drinking water is, by scientific standards, both safe and essential for the community's optimal dental health.

You have the right to disagree with science, and you have the option of filtering your water.

If you like fluoride, it is legal and available, help yourself. Otherwise, don't add it to drinking water and force everyone to consume a poisonous drug.

Citizens already pay for their drinking water. They should not have to pay again for bottled water or the expensive filters to remove fluoride.

SIMPLE SOLUTION:
1. Take the toxic waste fluoride chemical out of the drinking water.
2. It is still legal and available, so those who wish to take it can then put fluoride tablets in their glass of water.
3. Leave the rest of us out of it, giving everyone the freedom of choice.

PROBLEM SOLVED FOR EVERYONE.

Some people will never appreciate the great public health measure that is fluoridation.

Anti-fluoridationism has been a conspiracy hobbyist's activity since the old John Birch Society hay days. It says something that the anti-fluoride folk are joined with the anti-vaccinationists.

Many public health measures cost individuals, such as buying infant car seats and getting vaccinations for the kids. Fluoridation is one of the cheapest and best financial deals ever.

Linda Rosa, RN:: Even if it were a viable solution to cavities (it is not), why should the gov administer it to the population? It is not the governments roll to medicate the people! In a free society, we are at the mercy of our own choices....that includes a mouth full of cavities! When it comes to government...the smart money is always on the LESS IS MORE side! PS. Does RN=Registered Nut?

The beginning of the end for "Patriot" as the inevitable arrives: He starts the name-calling.

Silly "Patriot": No matter how many times you post this link, the facts behind it won't change. The acid in this spill is not what people drink when turning on their faucet. Ask any of the 175,000,000 people in this country who have fluoridated water on tap.

Carol,

As ALWAYS, smoke and mirrors. Your link is to the petition.

FACT: The EPA has NOT said that "Fluoride and Radon have been linked to Osteosarcoma as a possible cause" as you attempt to write above. The PETITION by people in the town are the ones commenting on this.

FACT: The Oregon EPA has said "Health experts report that cancer clusters are difficult to investigate because there are too many variables and too few cases to pin the cancers on any one cause. Oregon Public Health Officer Mel Kohn said the state did a brief review after learning about the West Salem cancers, but found the county’s cancer rate no higher than the rest of the state’s. That ended the investigation."
http://www.kgw.com/news/Cancer-cluster-around-West-Salem-High-172209891.html

FACT: " The Environmental Protection Agency regional office in Seattle has accepted a petition with more than 700 names asking the agency to investigate what caused at least four cases of a rare bone cancer in West Salem.
"Our immediate goal is to get a clearer picture of what's happening locally," said Mark MacIntyre with the EPA. He said the agency was beginning a process that would include "arranging interviews, identifying possible places to investigate, reviewing existing data and contacting state health officials for more background on the concerns."
http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/salem/EPA-to-look-into-Salem-cancer-cases-182107571.html

MOST IMPORTANT FACT OF ALL:

Anyone that has had a child die, myself included, understands the pain and agony of this loss. No words can express the anger, frustration, loss of faith in God, and heart-wrenching, soul-shaking upheaval this causes in a family. Only through our faith in God and a solid family foundation are we able to make it back from this loss. While we heal, we never get over it.

To take this loss of life in West Salem, OR, and to exploit it for your groups' personal vendetta against fluoridation, is sickening.

As the mother of Lisa Harder who died so aptly put it:
"It all revolves around kids in a three-mile radius," says Gail. "Was it the water? Was it a carrot that they ate? Don't know, but I'd sure like to have an answer, because as a parent it kills you. You wonder, 'How could you let your child have something like this and not have an answer?'
http://salem.katu.com/news/news/500446-west-salem-families-want-water-tested-after-cancer-diagnoses

Leave these people to their grieving, Carol. Take NYSCOF and FAN and leave their town. This is even a low move for you.

A 2006 study by Dr. Elise Bassin, DDS, Harvard University, published in a cancer journal, shows a fivefold increase in bone cancer in young people who have consumed fluoride in their drinking water.

Only 5% of the world and only 3% of Europe fluoridate drinking water.
Fluoride is neither a nutrient nor essential for healthy teeth. No adult has ever walked out of their doctor's office with a prescription for the fluoride drug because it is deadly poison and the body has no known use for it. It is never included in any multi-vitamin formulation. Drinking it to prevent tooth decay is as foolish as drinking sunscreen to prevent sunburn. Every fluoride toothpaste tube carries the warning "if swallowed, call a poison control center immediately."

As a top scientist and the premier international authority on fluoride, last year Dr. Paul Connett's published his most recent book "The Case Against Fluoride." It contains over 1200 studies (80 pages) and sound scientific reasoning showing the ineffectiveness and dangers to health including cancer, thyroid & pineal gland damage, broken hips from brittle bones, lowered IQ, kidney disease, arthritis and other serious health problems.

Yes jwillie6, jump in to protect your cohort in internet trolling for terrorism.

First, Paul Connett. Very impressive credentials. Here we have a chemistry professor who is on a crusade to end fluoridation. And why? Why do any of you do this? Only God knows.

Paul Connett, who's book is for sale incidentally (nice plug jwillie6-helps support the cause, huh?), claims that he, as a chemistry professor, knows more about fluoridation than the WHO, CDC, AMA, AAP, US Surgeon Generals, American Cancer Society, and the ADA? That's some ego. And he does it all in an 80 page book. Just to think, we could have saved 68 years of fluoridation and over 3000 published articles in PEER REVIEWED, REFEREED JOURNALS (not a self-serving book) and just waited for the all telling, all knowing Paul Connett. Or better yet, we could wait for a movie. Oh, snap!! There is a movie. Dr. Strangelove. Wait though. That's when the conspiracy theorists, aka NYSCOF, FAN, you...., were claiming that fluoridation was a Communist plot to take over the US. That was post-Nazi Hitler using it to make the Jews in Concentration Camps docile.

Why don't you just read our Politifact evaluation of your claims by the Tampa Bay Times for some truth on your claims. Maybe you'll even learn that you've been misled.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2011/oct/06/critics-water-fluoridation/truth-about-fluoride-doesnt-include-nazi-myth/

and blah blah blah jwillie6

Toothpaste: warning required on it like it is on so many other items in our house, like vitamins. FYI, no person has ever died from toothpaste overdose in the US. You throw up from the sudsing agent before you could ever ingest enough. A small child would have to eat 2 (two) full tubes of regular sized toothpaste at one sitting to die. Now that would be responsible parenting, huh?

Osteosarcoma: Dr. Bassin published her report on partial and early information from the ongoing study. The final results were released in 2011:

An assessment of bone fluoride and osteosarcoma.
"No significant association between bone fluoride levels and osteosarcoma risk was detected in our case-control study, based on controls with other tumor diagnoses."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21799046

Lastly, other parts of the world use fluoridated salt, fluoridated milk, and/or fluoride supplements when water fluoridation isn't feasible.

Troll elsewhere please.

jwillie6: I don't understand the people that defend FLUORIDE for even a second....The information linking it to so many health issues is astounding, and more proof comes out with every battle, yet here they are....the FLUORIDE lovers, one after the other....simply doing something because that is what they have always done! Yet, evidence, as if it were not enough, is not as convincing to me as reading the side of FLUORIDE laced tube of tooth paste says on it..."If ingested, call poison prevention immediately " Yet, looking at my tube of TOM's FLUORIDE free tooth paste....there is not such warning! Be wary of a government that says they have come to help!

"Patriot", That's one advantage we proponents have over you. We understand the opposition mind-set all too well, and we know most of its factual deceptions, too. We are quite prepared to set the record straight wherever and whenever we see it.

For example, nyscof's (Mrs. Kopf's) statements are typical of such deceptions: fluoride and radon are a *possible* cause of a cancer cluster of 7 Oregon children. A (citizen) petition has been filed! The EPA will investigate! Is this proof of anything? Nope. Is it an example of the danger of optimal water fluoridation? Not by a long shot. As Mrs. Kopf posts it all here, it must mean something, don't you think? Meanwhile, she leaves us to conclude that the safe experience of 200,000,000 Americans with optimal water fluoridation counts for nothing.

What a piece of work.

Have you read The Flouride Deception by Christopher Bryson? Also, why do toothpaste warning labels exist? The ones that say if your child swallows more than a pea-sized amount you should call Poison control? Lets see, if I advise my child to drink 8 glasses a day, how much Flouride are they getting? Lets take it out of the water supply like much of the rest of the world is doing. That way, those that want it can take Flouride pills or pay you for topical treatments. Telling us to buy a filter or bottled water is unfair besides the fact that plastic bottles are bad for the environment.

Thank You Robert!! 100% accurate my friend!!

Robert: Yet again here you living the LIV dream! Spouting off nonsense with opinion....yet no valid information or truth! Fluoride, wile it may not kill you instantly, like all toxins they accumulate and build up in your system. As I have said in the past, it matters not if you want it in your water, it matters more that it can be prescribed by our government! You want it? Have at it! I don't want your VIAGRA or your "ANUCORT-HC" meds either!

"Patriot" finds himself on the wrong side of the facts again, and responds as he always does ... with ad hominem attacks.

Thanks Jim.

Mr. Bouldin is a great example of a parent, citizen, business person, and candidate for public office that evaluates the credible information not only on fluoridation, but on any topic that he is presented with.

I firmly feel that Mr. Bouldin will represent the residents of Tarpon Springs in the most compassionate and professional manner possible is elected.

Jim Bouldin: Spoken like a true political hack looking to get into a cush job with great beninys! Perhaps Tampon Springs deserves you!

And "Patriot" mouths off again in his addled way.

jwillie6:

Everyone needs to know that jwillie6 is an internet troll posting fluoridation opposition terroristic claims to scare the beJesus out of us. He couldn't be more wrong.

Here is the true information as provided by our outstanding engineers at the Pinellas County Utilities. I know them, and they are outstanding people. We trust them to follow the rules laid down by the EPA (who regulates fluoridation additives, not the FDA) for all additives to our water:

"Do health studies exist on the chemicals used in water fluoridation?
The claim is sometimes made that no health studies exist on the silicofluoride chemicals used in water fluoridation. The scientific community does not study health effects of concentrated chemicals as put into water. The health effects of the treated water are studied, i.e. what those chemicals become when added to water such as the fluoride ion, silicates and the hydrogen ion. The health effects of fluoride have been analyzed by literally thousands of studies over 50 years and have been found to be safe and effective in reducing tooth decay. The EPA has not set any Maximum Contaminant Level (MCL) for the silicates as there are no health concerns for them at the low concentrations found in drinking water."
http://www.pinellascounty.org/utilities/fluoridation.htm

Next claim jwillie6, NYSCOF, and the others? I've got all day to protect our families here. Stay out of my backyard!!

jwillie6: Proof that FLUORIDE is toxic....so much so, it was burning through the concrete. Yea! I want that crap in my sons mouth! http://youtu.be/Hj6WAXGfAnM

Silly "Patriot". You've been answered on this already, by a health professional. You might try to come up with a *real* argument, backed by facts instead of four-letter words. But that's not your style, is it?

2. Antifluoridationists’ Claim: Fluorosilicates have never been tested for safety in humans.
CDC Response to Antifluoridationists’ Claim: Experts in inorganic aquatic chemistry at the US Environmental Protection Agency have studied ionic speciation of fluorosilicates and have concluded that at the pH and fluoride concentration of potable water, fluorosilicates would completely dissolved to fluoride and silica. Researchers at the University of Michigan attempted to verify those theoretical predictions of ionic speciation and were unable to detect any residual fluorosilicates at pH over 4.8, and considering that drinking water are adjusted to minimize potential corrosion of metal pipes to pH over 7, and typically over 8, persistence of fluorosilicates cannot occur.

3. Antifluoridationists’ Claim: Fluorosilicates have never been tested for safety in humans.
CDC Response to Antifluoridationists’ Claim: When you consider that fluorosilicates do not exist at the pH in drinking water, it impossible to measure the health effects since you cannot measure the health effects of something that cannot be consumed by people.

4. Antifluoridationists’ Claim: Fluoride products have contamination including Arsenic.
CDC Response to Antifluoridationists’ Claim: In the CDC Fact Sheet there is a link the NSF website and a Fact Sheet published by NSF on the actual measured level of impurities. All water additives have some level of impurities since reagent grade products are never necessary for water processing, but Standard 60 specifies allowable levels of impurities based on EPA criteria. What is remarkable is that NSF conducts regular verification testing of fluoride products for the Standard 60 certification and has never measured any fluoride products that exceed the allowable impurity levels with respect to EPA allowable levels. The majority of product testing does not even measure detectable levels of Arsenic.
Kip Duchon, National Fluoridation Engineer, CDC, 11-26-12

Additional References:
Water Fluoridation and the Environment: Current Perspective in the United States
Pollick, Howard F., Int J Occup Environ Health, 2004;10:343–350
“Fate of Fluorosilicate Drinking Water Additives”, Urbansky, Edward T., Chem. Rev. 2002, 102, 2837-2854
“Can Fluoridation Affect Lead(II) in Potable Water? Hexafluorosilicate and Fluoride Equilibria in Aqueous Solution”, Urbansky, Edward T., and Schock, Michael R., Intern. J. Environ.Studies, 2000, Vol. 57, pp. 597-637

So, in summary, I hope that this information from the top person at the CDC, Kip Duchon, the National Fluoridation Engineer, is comforting to you and your confusion about the additives used to fluoridate our US water supplies for the last 50 years of the 68 that we've been fluoridating.

FLUORIDE BURNS THROUGH CONCRETE!
http://youtu.be/Hj6WAXGfAnM

Silly "Patriot": You've been answered on this already -- by a health professional. This is not what people are drinking when turning on their faucet. Ask any of the 175,000,000 people in this country who have fluoridated water on tap.

Amen!! Well said. And for about $150 at Home Depot, they can purchase a GE RO filter to do just that. Oops!! Sorry. I think I just cut into your new business lol.

Example of Fluoride Removing Reverse Osmosis Unit based on NSF Standard 58

NSF Contaminant Guide for Standard 58 and link to RO systems:
http://www.nsf.org/consumer/drinking_water/contaminant_fluoride.asp

NSF list of manufacturers and products:
http://www.nsf.org/Certified/consumer/listings_results.asp?KeyWords=&ProgramCode=ROS&CompanyName=&ProductName=&SearchType=AD
VANCED&prog_add=Y&function_desc=Fluoride%20Reduction&search_tbl=ols_dwtu&prod_cnt=144&comp_cnt=34&SortType=desc&PreSort=prod_desc&SortHeader=company_name

Example of a system: GE GXRM10RBL (Pb):
http://www.nsf.org/Certified/consumer/listings_results_detail.asp?
prod_desc=GXRM10RBL&prog_code=ROS&cust_id=56080&search_tbl=ols_dwtu&search_field=model_desc_search&std_id=&com_detail=Y&final_detail=Y&function_desc=Fluoride%20Reduction&prog_dir=DWTU&cat_desc=

GE Profile Reverse Osmosis Water Filtration System: Home Depot, $147.00
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202073853/h_d2/ProductDisplay?

Silly "Patriot": You've been answered on this already -- by a health professional. This is not what people are drinking when turning on their faucet. Ask any of the 175,000,000 people in this country who have fluoridated water on tap.

Allie's got one great grandpa!!!

Silly "Patriot": No matter how many times you post this link, the facts behind it won't change. The contaminant in this spill is not what people drink when turning on their faucet. Ask any of the 175,000,000 people in this country who have fluoridated water on tap.

CHOCOLATE KILLS DOGS IN SMALL DOSES, AND PEOPLE IN VERY LARGE DOSES.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQf2AMwka5A

Silly "Patriot": No matter how many times you post this link, the facts behind it won't change. The acid in this spill is not what people drink when turning on their faucet. Ask any of the 175,000,000 people in this country who have fluoridated water on tap.

I'd better advise my wife about the chocoholic toxicity :)))

Billy Budd! Are you nutz? if it is toxic as a chem spill....r u saying that .7ppm is safe? R U THAT STUPID?????????

Patriot:
I think there's confusion over the chemistry of fluoride. When you say it will burn through concrete, I think you're referring to the solution HFSA that Kurt explains above.

If so, you are referring to an acid, which I can then understand your confusion.

We wouldn't drink Muratic acid. But we swim in it in our pools.
We wouldn't eat Acetic acid. Butt we use it on our salads as a dressing.
We wouldn't swallow Phosphoric acid. But we drink it in our carbonated sodas.

The key here is concentrations. Too much off anything can be bad for us. Like chocolate. But in the proper amounts can be very beneficial, like salad dressing and fluoridated water.

So I think you're dwelling on HFSA because of the word acid. HFSA dissolves in water when the few drops of it are added to Pinellas' water (Friday) to produce fluoride ion, sand (silica), and water. (See my post re: Kip Duchon @ CDC).

The fluoride ion concentration in our water today, 0.2ppm, will be nudged to 0.7ppm Friday by a few drops of HFSA. But don't worry. It's all fluoride ions from the earth. They're all the same. God made em and our body's use em to keep our teeth healthier.

Hope this helps to explain any confusion you may have had.

"We wouldn't drink Muratic acid. But we swim in it in our pools.

We wouldn't eat Acetic acid. Butt we use it on our salads as a dressing.

We wouldn't swallow Phosphoric acid. But we drink it in our carbonated sodas.

The key here is concentrations. Too much off anything can be bad for us.

Like chocolate.

But in the proper amounts can be very beneficial, like salad dressing and fluoridated water."

With thanks to Mr Johnson for his astute observations.

Dad Of Three: Rhetoric! Nothing but RHETORIC! I am allergic to chlorine myself....so, yea, no pool for me ( MY CHOICE). Salads? No vinegar thank you, I prefer ranch (MY CHOICE)! In case you miss the point you toxic pusher....these are choices! CHOICES! Do you get it! I can choose my poison...Government has no right to force it on me you idiot!

Aw gee, you've hurt my feelings, you moron.

Silly "Patriot": You only think (I use that term loosely) that you are allergic to chlorine. Allergies happen only to proteins. Chlorine is not a protein, so you are not allergic to chlorine. Funny, you choose not to go to the pool because of an imaginary threat, instead of demanding that the pool close. Yet you demand that water treatment be curtailed for 700,000 people because of another imaginary threat. Why don't you just choose not to partake of the treated water by buying a water filter for yourself and your unfortunate family? That way, to use Mr Hirzy's (jwillie's) favorite phrase, everybody's happy.

This "news report" is anti-fluoridation propaganda, not journalism. Note that it never even identifies several of the on-camera commentators (probably because their credentials are thin). I'm not surprised that it convinces "Patriot", however.

"Observe which side resorts to the most stupid remarks and the most viciferous name calling and you are likely to have identified the side with the weaker argument and they know it."

Oh yeah, just like the National Institutes of Health, the Mayo Clinic, the Environmental Protection Agency, the National Cancer Institute, the American Medical Association, and the American Dental Association, all have such "weak" arguments.

Yeah, right Mr Willy. You and some of the others just happen to be a great straight man for comedy, pal.

http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/OralHealth/Topics/Fluoride/StatementWaterFluoridation.htm

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-information/DR601265

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/fluoridated-water

http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/basicinformation/fluoride.cfm

http://www.fda.gov/Food/LabelingNutrition/LabelClaims/FDAModernizationActFDAMAClaims/ucm073602.htm

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/fluoride/document/myth_fact_sheet.pdf

I feel sorry for Allie

Well, anytime we need a clown, Patriot comes along and plays the fool.

Allie's Gramps,

Outstanding list of links my friend!! Thank you for sharing them. The nice thing about credible scientific links and statements is that they're hard to find. That is, it's hard to find the exact one you may want to use, as there's thousands upon thousands of them to pick from.

On the other hand, it's easy to find the non-credible ones by pulling out a 68 page book off of the shelf by Paul Connett.

You and Dad of Three are class acts. Thanks guys for your support :)

Dear Patriot, "naturally occurring" substances are over-rated. Take, for example, snake venom.

Still fluorosilicic acid just provide extra fluoride ions to drinking water - ions just like the fluoride ions found in ground water. Identical.

Here is an interesting study on FLUORIDE....why anyone would risk the future of there children's health is just insane!
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/2012/10/developmental-fluoride-neurotoxicity-a-systematic-review-and-meta-analysis/

Results: The standardized weighted mean difference in IQ score between exposed and reference populations was –0.45 (95% confidence interval: –0.56, –0.35) using a random-effects model. Thus, children in high-fluoride areas had significantly lower IQ scores than those who lived in low-fluoride areas. Subgroup and sensitivity analyses also indicated inverse associations, although the substantial heterogeneity did not appear to decrease.


Conclusions: The results support the possibility of an adverse effect of high fluoride exposure on children’s neurodevelopment. Future research should include detailed individual-level information on prenatal exposure, neurobehavioral performance, and covariates for adjustment.


Patriot: Key words in this study are "high fluoride exposure." Here is a review by Steve Novella, MD, with conclusion:

"Antifluoridation Bad Science"
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/antifluoridation-bad-science/

There are many weaknesses to the epidemiological studies reviewed in the recent article – high heterogeneity, poor controlling for other variables, no indication of blinding of IQ assessments, and many others. But even taken at face value they do not indicate any association between lower IQ and the fluoride levels added to drinking water in the US. In fact, those levels of fluoride were used as the controls in these studies showing higher IQ. (There was a lot of variance of the effect size, but the net effect size on IQ in the meta-analysis was -0.45 standard deviations). Therefore, if anything, this review adds to the body of evidence for the safety of fluoridation.

This fact has not stopped anti-fluoridation groups from exploiting the review for their own propaganda purposes. Otherwise respectable news outlets are unwittingly collaborating in this anti-scientific propaganda campaign by lazily reprinting these press releases in their news sections – without any editorial filter.

The “fluoride wars” are likely to continue as long there is a fluoridation program. This is evidence that there is no public safety measure that is so effective, safe, and cost effective that there will not be those who vigorously oppose its implementation.

Cheers :)

How Safe is Fluoride? I-Team from WTVD 11 Reports http://youtu.be/REnWEUipZCA

Sorry folks, but it is clear that the use of FLUORIDE is a very contoversial issue!
given that so many credible sources have a come forward with negative information on FLUORIDE....why not error on the side safety, and stop the FLUORIDE now?

Honestly Patriot, an I-Team report from the Raleigh Durham area that is no longer on their own website for quite obvious reasons, do you consider that link a credible scientific, peer reviewed source?

I'm still waiting on a single shred of credible scientifically valid, peer reviewed literature on Optimally fluoridated water to substantiate a single claim made by the opposition.........

Johnny Johnson: What are you talking about? That news piece was linked on there website. As for credible sources. tell my why the pro-stance is more relevant then the the opposing! Fact of the matter is, you can not....the one thing that is obvious, is a lot of evidence exist for both sides....so why not slow down....and take a stance that is inline with sanity....stop fluoridating the water...!

Patriot,
I'm going to slow down now. It's time for a tall cold glass of water and bed. But in the morning I'll check for any credible scientific references to rebuke the safety of Optimally fluoridated water that you may have posted. Our opinions are our own. I'm looking for hard and fast credible scientific research that supports your positions.

Thanks,
Johnny

JJ: I do not have the inclination or the time to do things as you suggest. However, examine the following.

One would think after over 65 years of fluoridating drinking water in the U.S. that there would be no more tooth decay problems. But the truth is that there are dental crises in so many cities and states, particularly in the poor and minority children. People have now caught on to the hoax of swallowing fluoride.

In the last 25 years, over 300 world communities have rejected it, including 38 in the first two months of 2013 (http://www.fluoridealert.org/content/communities/ ). They have all examined the science and now rejection is widespread with only 5% of the world using fluoridation.

I refer you to over 1200 scientific studies on the subject.
As a top scientist and the premier international authority on fluoride, last year Dr. Paul Connett's published his most recent book "The Case Against Fluoride." It contains over 1200 studies (80 pages) and sound scientific reasoning showing the ineffectiveness and dangers to health including cancer, thyroid & pineal gland damage, broken hips from brittle bones, lowered IQ, kidney disease, arthritis and other serious health problems.
(continued below)

14 Nobel prize winners, the U.S. EPA's own 1700 scientists and researchers are joined by 4400 professionals, (www.fluoridealert.org), including hundreds of dentists, hundreds of doctors, and other medical researchers who have signed a petition calling on governments everywhere to stop fluoridation.

Why don't we agree on this solution:
Fluoride is still legal and available. Although I would not recommend it, get some pills and take as much as you like. Don't force everyone to take it in drinking water. That way everyone is happy with freedom of choice.

Patriot says "14 Nobel prize winners, the U.S. EPA's own 1700 scientists and researchers are joined by 4400 professionals, (www.fluoridealert.org), including hundreds of dentists, hundreds of doctors, and other medical researchers who have signed a petition..."

A bit of hyperbole, no? The EPA considers fluoridation safe for humans and the environment. (One of hundreds of EPA labor unions voting against fluoridation decades ago is not impressive.) And that some 250 "holistic" dentists oppose fluoridation is not impressive either, when you consider that the country's 175,000 working dentist encourage fluoridation.

14 Nobelists? Any still alive?

Anyone that can quote the EPA or FDA on anything as proof....is just lost! These are the same clowns that allowed MONSANTO remove the nutrients from our food and gave them the right to patent living organism. In so doing, took the ability of family own farmers to seed 2nd and 3rd and 4th generation seeds. In essence, Monsanto will be the sole owner of all seed produced products. The problem is, Americans are dumb now, after years of FLUORIDE, ASPARTAME and other neuro intense additives have left you all in a state of main stream media drones. Now you are left regurgitating information from Ted Baxter and Jon Stewart thinking you are cute....

Mr. Patriot, be so kind to tell us who you turn to for healthcare?

Where is the sanity in this issue? If you think that the brakes on your car are failing, do you continue to drive? Or, do you error on the side of safety and stop driving and get them checked? Well, like me, I doubt there is a know it all scientist in this debate that can tell us without a doubt, how the long term effect of FLUORIDE will pan out....so, it makes sense to table the FLUORIDE, and error on the side of safety....those that want the FLUORIDE can have pills distributed at your local pharmacy at the tax payers expense! Makes sense to me, just cause some folks want it in the water, does not mean I should have it in mine! I will even help pay for your FLUORIDE pills with joy!

Patriot wrote: "If you think that the brakes on your car are failing, do you continue to drive? Or, do you error on the side of safety and stop driving and get them checked?"

Fluoridation has been checked over by numerous teams of experts (systematic reviews) so that scientifically-literate people feel confident about its safety.

You don't want to pay for fluoride pills. It's expensive. You would also need to offer to pay for all the dental care, ER visits, and atone for the needless pain and suffering. Cheaper to get yourself a filter.

JJ: blah blah blah....go stare at goats you MK Ultra drone

Well, "Patriot", back to your old standby -- name calling. The least you should do, when asked for evidence, is make some up. That's what Nyscof does.

Silly "Patriot": Ah, yes, the Nazi gambit; always a trusted standby for the besotted conspiratorialist. (That, and ending every declarative sentence with an exclamation point.) Fact is, water fluoridation is more effective and less expensive than brushing. Less expensive than fluoride supplements and fluoride treatments at the dentist. Even improves dental health over and above regular dental care.

You are right on one thing. This *is* America, where we can use government to provide a valuable and safe service when it is available and cheap to do so. That's what Americans have done with communities treating water in the first place, and so it can be with fluoridating it. Besides, what if a community's water was provided by a private company, as is the case in some places? Would you, a "patriot", prohibit the company from providing fluoridation, essentially for free, provided that it was safe and effective?

Did you know that sodium Fluoride is also one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin Nerve Gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUORIDE) - (Yes, folks the same Sarin Nerve Gas that terrorists released on a crowded Japanese subway train!). Let me repeat: the truth the American public needs to understand is the fact that Sodium Fluoride is nothing more (or less) than a hazardous waste by-product of the nuclear and aluminum industries. In addition to being the primary ingredient in rat and cockroach poisons, it is also a main ingredient in anesthetic, hypnotic, and psychiatric drugs as well as military NERVE GAS! Why, oh why then is it allowed to be added to the toothpastes and drinking water of the American people?

Oh, "patriot", do you know anything about chemistry? If sodium is a basic "ingredient" of the compounds you mention, where did the sodium go? It's true that sodium fluoride is in toothpaste, but it's not in the water in Pinellas (neither is Sarin or Prozac). And it's not hazardous waste, either -- it's, well, sodium fluoride. Pinellas uses hydrofluorosilicic acid to supplement the fluorine ions in the water. Even that acid is not in the drinking water, either, by the time the water leaves the treatment plant. You keep reaching for things, but keep coming up empty-handed. Pretty sad to watch, for someone who calls him- or her-self a "patriot".

Thanks Ed. I was beginning to tire of my requests for valid and credible science. I thought I might have been living on an island somewhere and missed that valid and credible science had changed and was now being published in a for-sale static book. Whew. Am I relieved with your comments :)

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser."
Socrates

"You must lash out with every limb, like the octopus who plays the drums."
The Sphinx

"He who questions training only trains himself at asking questions."
The Sphinx

"When you care what is outside, what is inside cares for you."
The Sphinx

"I don't need a compass to know which way the wind shines."
Mr. Furious

"We are number one. All others are number two, or lower."
The Sphinx

"Learn to hide your strikes from your opponent and you'll more easily strike his hide."
The Sphinx

"When you can balance a tack hammer on your head, you will head off your foes with a balanced attack."
The Sphinx

"Do not go there, my son! When you doubt your powers, you give power to your doubts."
The Sphinx

"You must be like the wolf pack... not like the six-pack."
The Sphinx

You guys must be communist! Cause you sure post like one!

Mine eyes have seen the horror of the coming of the Reds,

They are standing in our closets, they are hiding neath our beds,

They will soon take over Pittsburgh and rename it Stalingrad,

Let's Fight until they're gone,

Gory, gory paranoia,

Oh those Commies will destroy ya,

Then the aliens will explore ya,

Lets rant until they're gone!

Torrey, I disagree, more like the chickens agree to stay and eat because they do no know there fate!

Now, "Patriot", that comment is just plain silly.

And what if it isn't "dosing" at all? Fluorine ions are not medication, but a nutrient. Yes, it helps prevent tooth decay, but that doesn't make it a medication. Just because vitamin C helps prevent scurvy, doesn't make vitamin C supplements "medication".

Nope! You may be an RN, but i would run from your floor.....The FLUORIDE added to the water, is not NATURAL, it is a byproduct from the fertilizer industry, and is a poison! Now, clean my bed pan!

"Patriot", that last comment is disgusting. But I thank you for it. You have shown what kind of low-life you are.

Patriot, you need better sources of information. Florida Politifact gave this ol' Nazi fluoride/pacification myth a "Pants on Fire" rating:

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2011/oct/06/critics-water-fluoridation/truth-about-fluoride-doesnt-include-nazi-myth/

I'm sorry....I stay away from liberal hack media....but you are welcome to wear your brown coat wherever you chose. Yea...POLITIFAKE is owned by the liberal rag...St.Petersburg Lies!

Ouch...look at that mess! lol

Did not mean to make you mad sweetie!

Mad has two meanings. One applies to you.

Where is Perkins' documentation?

Hey, you know Commies (and Nazis) had double agents who called themselves "patriots" while disseminating subversive ideas. Sounds like a certain "patriot" around here.

I have never witness a breakdown b4. But I am speculating...that this is the essence of it! Where should I send help Ed?

Witnessing a breakdown? Been looking in the mirror?

There may be a germ of truth somewhere in all of that, "patriot", but it doesn't matter which, because it's all irrelevant. There is not a molecule of toxic waste in artificially fluoridated water. Fluorine ions are not toxic, but a nutrient. Fluorine ions are a factor in *re*mineralization of the dental enamel matrix, and are not a factor in *de*mineralization. The fluoride in our water supply is not what *you* think (again, I use that term loosely in your case). This disinformation on your part is reprehensible.

The political back story of how fluoride was introduced into your drinking water reads like a cross between a psychological thriller and mind-boggling science fiction.

Read Bryson’s book, and you’ll never think of fluoride the same again… Because the bottom line is that when you swallow fluoride, it does nothing to decrease disease, it merely accelerates it.

patriot:

Great references above!! Right from a scientific source, the renowned antifluoridationist David Kennedy, DDS
http://www.robertgammal.com/PDFs/SciFactsFluoride.pdf

More smoke and mirrors. Science. Credible and valid. Peer reviewed. Published in recognized scientific journals. Oh, and how about current. None of the references above are current positions of the AMA or ADA. Nor were they after research began on optimal community water fluoridation.

MSDS sheets. Now there's a group of interesting readings. Pull up some, just for fun, on other dental products, like prophy paste. Or how about an additive to water, chlorine. Or some other home product, like Windex. They're all worst case scenarios, not proper uses of the products. Hazards. Hazmat.

I encountered Bryson's book when it first came out almost a decade ago. He didn't win any awards with it. It didn't change the known facts about fluoridation. It did change my opinion about the motivations of those who oppose fluoridation...from unfavorable to very unfavorable.

The bottom line on fluoridation, like nearly all of your utterances, is exactly the opposite of what you say it is.

Fluoride compounds may target these things and induce certain adverse conditions. (Though I hasten to add that I don't trust you, "patriot", or your unnamed sources, or your judgment about the information.) But the fact remains that not a molecule of any fluoride compound is added to drinking water through fluoridation. So your discussion of "dangerous toxins" is totally irrelevant. (Which makes you totally irrelevant in my book.)

So, to where have you run and hidden?

Drink it up....your demise will bring rejoice to the MORAL majority!

Dr. Bill Osmunson, an avid supporter of fluoride opposition, states:

"No one fixes IQ. This is an irreparable, irreversible damage that's happening to our public. When you look at the bell curve of human distribution of intelligence, at the very bottom, way down there at the end, is what we scientifically call the mentally retarded. When you skew IQ five points down, that means that you're doubling the number of mentally retarded and you're halving the number of gifted and everybody else moves on down."

And how does Mr. Osmunson, "avid supporter of fluoride opposition," reconcile the fact that over 200 million Americans drink water that is optimally fluoridated, yet the average American IQ has grown by 15 points in the last decades? By his reasoning, doesn't that mean that we've cut mental retardation by seven-eighths, and increased the number of "gifted" people by eight-fold, and everybody else has moved on up?

BTW, anyone who *rejoices* in anyone else's demise is not being moral by my lights. Does that include you, "patriot"?

I note that when you cut-and-pasted that little screed, you included the footnote references, but not the footnotes. So we can't judge the veracity of the statement, or whether the quote is accurate and in context.

Oh, and is this what we here can expect from you here on out? Cutting and pasting someone else's words instead of letting them say it? I just knew a few comments back that it wasn't *you*, "patriot". The spelling and grammar was so much improved.

jwillie, I find it hard to believe that intelligent members of my local community are this argumentative over this issue, you would think by listening to them, that they actually are naive enough to think that the government is here to help given it's past history of treating the American citizen....one not need look that far back to see that out government will always error on the side of acceptable loss.....think of Katrina and what the gov did their! Look at 911 and how they treated the first responders! Look at returning military and how they are being ignored, and are now being told they can not have a gun....and the list goes on, and on! How naive can these children be???????

Hey J. I thought you only showed up when Mr. P left. Was beginning to think you two were alter egos.

Incidentally, while you are here, how about showing some pudding proof and give me one of your claims with the credible, scientific, peer reviewed research supporting that claim? I mean the exact link to the reference, not some citation that's not accessible by the free internet. And a book by Connett or Bryson aren't, sorry to inform, scientifically anything.

Claim & reference please: __________________________________________

ME and my family are not exposed to FLUORIDE, we had a filter installed years ago after I had my tap water checked at the 3M lab... So wile we go on with our lives enjoying good health with limited exposure to the poison that is FLUORIDE, I will know that, in the future, I will feel somewhat disheartened to learn of the increase in life threatening sickness as it makes it's way through society....My only comfort will be that I did at least try to educate my fellow citizens. By the way.... That 3M lab result was .755PPM....In case you are not aware, that is over the safe limit of exposure....good luck, and cheers!

Pat,

Fluoride is ubiquitous in our world. It's in the food, water, juices, soft drinks, etc. There's no way that any of us could avoid it completely, unless of course, we didn't eat or drink.

Additionally, "safe levels" of fluoride refers to levels which are beneficial for cavity reductions yet do not produce visible fluorosis (white flecks, not the brown pitting stains you will jump to say). The levels considered "safe" by the EPA are 4ppm. So you can feel more comfortable to know that since the proposed levels for optimal fluoridation are 0.7ppm were exceeded by 0.055ppm, your life isn't coming to an end a second sooner than it would have. If anything, your family, if any are under 8yo, just received a tad bit more cavity protection than they would have if it was 0.055ppm less than 0.7ppm.

If you want to educate anyone, join me for a walk through poor neighborhoods and explain to the kids with rampant (extensive and generalized) decay that you think that they should buy fluoride tablets because you don't think you should have to drink it in the water. And that their problems are because they are they don't eat well, they don't brush well, and that their parents aren't being responsible for their healthcare. I doubt that you'd like to hear what you'd be told. I've been there. I grew up there. I had abscessed teeth growing up. Toothaches. Little to no money to see a dentist.

If you indeed live here, join us in our collaboration with the Pinellas County Board of County Commissioners, the Pinellas County Health Dept, and the private practice dentists to expand the access to dental health care in our county. We are tackling a problem like it's being done nowhere else in the US. By volunteer dentists and a county government willing to go out into unchartered territory. And a Health Dept that understands that dental health = total body health. Hence the name Healthy Teeth for the initiative.

What do you say? Want to put up? It will only cost you your time, and you will gain a satisfaction like you may never have experienced in your life.

Poor ol' beleaguered Patriot: Pardon me if I suggest that you don't quite have the libertarian angle thought out on fluoridation. Allow me to state the situation in libertarian terms.

Do you think that it is practical for city dwellers to each have their own well & sewer system? Could private ownership of these services work? Not unless you think monopolies are a good idea. Furthermore, the private supplier to your area might decide to (likely) fluoridate, nor maybe not. Another supplier might not bother himself about pathogens since he's a naturopath and doesn't believe in Germ Theory, but does charge for "reverse homeopathic water treatment."
If you are still following me, you will see that we are cornered into accepting that supplying water and sewer services is a proper role of government. And what would good government do given this responsibility? It would base water treatment & sewer maintenance on the best science.

From my perspective you are on the wrong side of the preponderance of good research. I suggest you read more about fluoridation from a variety of sources so you can understand how the old anti-fluoridation movement relies on an often well-founded distrust of government and a tentative understanding of the science.

This far down, I'm not writing for public consumption, just to you. By the way, I have a quibble with fluoridation: it should be under the authority of state health departments.

Peggy Thatcher: Don't feel sorry for me....I can afford a nice filtering unit and all the cool clean poison free water i want....so enjoy a tall glass of poison on me sweet heart!

Seriously, you are not willing to get down to brass tacks and respond to a libertarian argument for fluoridation...but rather just be glib? Adieu.

Peggy ... Thank you for your comments. The issue that is lost in this series of comments it that we had an election. The populace voted. Two of the commissioners who voted in favor of dropping fluoride where voted out of office. This is how a republic functions. The people voice their opinion, they vote. Brickfield and Bostock where voted out of office and the new office holders did as they said they would do during the campaign. They restored fluoride to the drinking. Individuals, such as Patriot, have the option of not drinking the water as it comes out of the tap. This is an exercise in the rule of the majority. The majority wants fluoride added to the water.

I stand by my comments....and the facts in it! I consider anyone that permits the government to pursue, or administer a toxin to public as a traitor to the Constitution. I stand by that comment also. As to your pride in the support of the people...I care not, further more. I encourage you to drink as much cool government provided poison. In fact, It comforts me to know that people like you are gulping it done en masse. Bottoms up : )

Oh, pants-on-fire "Patriot", you haven't stated a single fact in more than a dozen posts, much less one that you can stand by as actually being true. What "toxin" is being administered here? Nothing. What "poison" is being provided here? Nothing. Fortunately you have been exposed already as an execrable commentator.

You can report back to Hirzy, Kopf, and Connett that you failed to salvage their reputations here on the Patch. You can report that they still owe Bostock and Brickfield for losing them their jobs. It's an electoral example that won't be lost on other politicians around the country when people like those three (and you, too, "Patriot") show up at a city council or county commission meeting spouting fluoride-is-poison nonsense.

Thank you Martha for your support!! We have a County Commission dedicated to the health and well being of all of our neighbors!!

Save it Patriot. This junk is over here. Your stint is only intended for those of us that are willing to provide the science which shows that you are out in left field.

The NRC study had nothing to do with Optimally fluoridated water. Debunked.

Thyroid function? British study. Debunked. My wife's tumorous thyroid removed-double debunked.

We're done. Holler all you want. You have no credibility in the scientific world. Unless, of course, it is the support of the other outliers you communicate with. The same minority espousing your own opinions. Have at it. Bye.

For Johnny Johnson! One more time!
http://www.viddler.com/v/a916012c

"Patriot," so *that* is where you get your misinformation: Mercola. No wonder you densely pack so many non-truths and non sequiturs into a single posting. There isn't a less reliable source for health information anywhere on the Internet than Mercola.

Dr. Johnson had you nailed here. It is not fluoride exposure that adversely affects the thyroid. If anything, it is *excessive* fluoride intake. Excessive fluoride intake cannot occur from fluoridated drinking water. Only from a highly polluted environment, which does not exist in Pinellas County.

Read the NRC report instead of Mercola's spin on it.

So sad, "Patriot." Repeating yourself (or rather, Mercola) doesn't make what you say any truer.

Dr. Johnson had you nailed here. It is not fluoride exposure that adversely affects the thyroid. If anything, it is *excessive* fluoride intake. Excessive fluoride intake cannot occur from fluoridated drinking water. Only from a highly polluted environment can you get damaging amounts of flouride, which does not exist in Pinellas County. And even if such pollution did exist in Palm Harbor, it is more likely that skeletal fluorosis would be the problem, not thyroid dysfunction.

Read the NRC report instead of Mercola's spin on it.

Thanks...for the help girlfriend

Gender-challenged are you, "patriot"?

Are we supposed to read the NRC report from cover to cover, three times? No matter how many times we read it, we won't find that hexafluorosilicic acid is the same thing as sodium fluoride. As one can tell from the name, there is no sodium in hexafluorosilicic acid.

Wow, if you can't even tumble to that when you're parroting back Mercola/Connett nonsense, why should anyone listen to you on your pronouncements about the "truth" about it? The truth really is that whatever is said about hexafluorosilicic acid, it is irrelevant to the debate over water fluoridation in Palm Harbor. Not one single molecule of hexafluorosilicic acid comes out of a faucet in a community with fluoridated water. Only your ignorance keeps you harping on it.

Oh, "Patriot", you are such a [fill in the blank].

Connett's title gives away the faulty premise of his book. There is no "hazardous waste" in fluoridated water. Not one molecule of any fluoride *compound* is present in fluoridated water. Not one. The book is a screed against a phantom of his own feverish imagination.

And, did you even bother to look at the huge clue in the title of Lin et al's paper: "...relationship of a low-iodine and *high-fluoride environment*..."? fluoridated water (0.7 parts per million) is *not* a "high-fluoride environment".

O benighted "Patriot," are you going to re-post all 80 pages of Connett's references? Let's see how long Patch's patience lasts for that.

Though there are lots of clues here for you to consider here: "during experimental fluorosis"... "1965"..."long-term intake of high fluoride"..."environmental pollution with fluorine compounds"

None of that is particularly relevant to contemporary water fluoridation.

"Patriot"...oooh, there it is again, the NRC Report of 2006. The one that the authoring panel said doesn't say anything about fluoridated water. And "maternal flavonoid ingestion" is relevant in some way? This is incredibly silly on your part.

Got bored, eh. Probably because of all the irrelevancies.

:-(

Are you now?

Your momma wears Army Boots!

Oh, "patriot". So clever. I note you didn't say which Army.

Allie's Grandpa: I looked through your links....I find nothing that convinces me of anything. There are no studies that relate all relative sources for a given group of people and subsequent dosage of set group. In other words, wile the SODIUM FLUORIDE (you do know the FLUORIDE we get in the water is not SODIUM FLUORIDE! It is HEXAFLUORISILICIC ACID!) dose may be safe for person 'A', person 'B" may have a sensitivity at lower level. This is precisely why your grand kids should not take an adult dose of your Viagra! lol Does this even make sense to you? One size does not fit all! How could it? How can they know how to dose every person? That is insane to think not one person would not have a long term dangerous health consequence waiting for them in the form of a bad health concern as the poison builds up in there system!

"Pat Riot" (I like that; thank you, Grandpa), I doubt you opened even one of those links, much less read any of them, in the time between Grandpa's post and yours.

Meantime, you do know that there is no hexafluorosilicic acid in the water, don't you? (LOL) And no sodium fluoride, either? (LOL) And that a zero "dose" does fit all? (LOL) And that fluorine ions are a mineral nutrient, not a poison? (LOL) And that homeostasis assures that fluoride doesn't build up in anyone's system? (LOL) And that Connett/Mercola/Kopf all speak with forked tongues to incite "pat riots"? (LOL)

Get real. And keep from laughing (in print) at your own bad jokes.

You keep searching for -- and finding -- ways to be wrong, "pat riot". Contrary to what you say: (1) Fluoride (fluorine ions) is recognized as a nutrient mineral, with a reference intake established by the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine. (2) Fluorine ions are not listed as a drug by the FDA. (3) Fluorine ions are not considered a drinking-water "contaminant" by the EPA. (4) Sodium fluoride is not used to add fluorine ions to Pinellas's water. (5) The type of water additives used to add fluorine ions to water are processed chemicals (not waste) and meet established quality standards. (6) No molecules of any fluoride compound are present in fluoridated water. (7) No one who drinks normal amounts of fluoridated water will be "over-exposed" to fluorine ions. (8) There is no such thing as "bone decay". (9) Tooth decay is caries, which is never caused by fluoride. (10) Dental fluorosis is not always "harmful"; it actually strengthens teeth. (11) Fluorosis (enamel and skeletal) is the only known adverse event associated with fluorine ions -- no (12) other "bone pathology", (13) arthritis, (14) osteoporosis, (15) Alzheimer's, (16) memory loss, (17) other "neurological impairment," (18) kidney damage, (19) cancer, (20) genetic damage, or (21) gastrointestinal problems. (22) The lead levels are not a known public-health concern in Palm Harbor.

That's almost two dozen falsehoods in one short post. Not a record, though.

No, the thing is "Pat Riot" is that you almost never have it right. You always seem to conflate your opinions with reality.

Well, "Pat Riot", I guess you don't count the UK and Ireland as part of Western Europe. On the "continent" they use water fluoridation less because the state of their municipal water systems makes it less practical than fluoridating salt, milk, or other foodstuffs. The WHO recommends using water fluoridation over other methods if it can be done practically.

The FDA warning is necessary because relatively small doses of fluoride can induce symptoms of acute fluoride toxicity (i.e., poisoning). Early symptoms of fluoride poisoning include gastrointestinal pain, nausea, vomiting, and headaches. The minimum dose that can produce these symptoms is estimated to be 0.1 to 0.3 mg/kg of fluoride (i.e., 0.1 to 0.3 milligrams of fluoride for every kilogram of bodyweight). A child weighing 10 kilograms, therefore, can suffer symptoms of acute toxicity by ingesting just 1 to 3 milligrams of fluoride in a single sitting.

"Pat Riot", the warning (no laughing matter) is against the swallowing of toothpaste, which contains much more than sodium fluoride. It contains ingredients which will cause anyone, especially a child, to vomit long before a fatal amount is consumed. To get a fatal dose, a small child would have to swallow at least two full tubes (maybe three) in quick succession. The warning is probably overblown, but a decent precaution nevertheless.

And as long as you're doing numbers, let's look at all of them. Using your numbers, a small child weighing a realistic 45 pounds would have to drink, in just a few minutes, 2.25 gallons of optimally fluoridated water to elicit the symptoms from fluoride poisoning. Actually, all the symptoms you mention would appear much sooner -- from water intoxication; and it would likely be fatal (whereas the fluoride "poisoning" would not be).

Face facts, "Pat Riot". Fluoride "poisoning" from optimal water fluoridation is not a real possibility or concern.

This sounds like something Hirzy would have gotten into the document before he was fired from EPA. This is not consistent with human biology or centuries of human experience. Fluoride is present in many foods, such as strawberries, and I've heard absolutely no reports of strawberries being the proximate cause of any of the signs of GI distress reported here.

Of course, this is assuming that you, "Pat Riot", haven't made this up. I notice you don't cite a page number from this document.

Pants on fire, "Pat Riot". The "warning" was not a warning at all, but "guidance" only. It has been superseded by a formal statement (http://jada.ada.org/content/142/1/79.full) that says, in part, "Practitioners should be aware that children are exposed to multiple sources of fluoride during the tooth development period. Reducing fluoride intake from reconstituted infant formula alone will not eliminate the risk of fluorosis development." In other words, optimally fluoridated water is not a determining factor in developing enamel fluorosis among babies fed formula.

Another false alarm from good ol' "Pat Riot".

"Pat Riot", what's the source for this nonsense? Bet it's Connett. This is unsubstantiated speculation. Is there any evidence at all that there is aluminum fluoride in anyone's drinking water? I very much doubt it. I'm sure this is the basis for your claim that fluoridation causes Alzheimer, but it's a stretch to do so. Not that I wouldn't put it beyond you to make such an unjustifiable stretch.

Poor Allie....her grandpa wants her sick!
Aluminum fluoride and Alzheimer's Disease

Many municipal water supplies are treated with both alum (aluminum sulfate) and fluoride. These two chemicals combine with each other easily in the blood to form aluminum fluoride. Although elemental aluminum can not pass the blood-brain barrier, some compounds such as aluminum fluoride do. Aluminum fluoride is very poorly excreted in the urine. It is poisonous to the kidneys. Aluminum salts in the brain lead to Alzheimer's Disease.

Wow, funny comment from yiayia; you see, I was feeling awful right up to Feb 28th, but I've felt terrific ever since then.

NYSCOF:

Still trolling these pages I see.

This is a bogus & fabricated abuse of credible information.

Your statement of the ppm of fluoride in POWDERED EGGS is not 900ppm. However, assuming that it was this high, the ACTUAL amount of fluoride consumed in 1 egg (after the powder is reconstituted with water) would be:

3.1ppm.

Nice attempt to scare my neighbors Carol. Stay in New York please.

Ref: http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/cleared_reviews/csr_PC-078003_13-Jul-05_b.pdf

Philip:

Your story is a common one for those that have grown up in fluoridated areas of the US. Mine is just the opposite. I have over 2/3rds of my mouth covered in crowns, root canals, and fillings from growing up without fluoridated water, and poor oral hygiene.

Adults now are keeping their teeth into late life because of the last 68 years of fluoridation in the US. It was very common for folks to soak their teeth in a glass of water overnight before fluoridation began. Now, dentures are in a minority of our adult population. And thank God for that. Those of us in this age group have better nutrition, health, and self confidence because of retention of our natural teeth.

Thanks for your positive story Philip :)

Johnny Johnson, Jr., DMD, MS
Pediatric Dentist, Palm Harbor, FL